Transcript: Django on the Med - Paolo Melchiorre

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Hi, welcome to another episode of Django Chat. I'm Will Vincent here with Carlton Gibson.

Hey, Carlton.

Hello, Will.

And we're very pleased to have on our friend Paolo Melchiorri. Welcome, Paolo.

Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me.

Pleasure to speak with you all.

because it was originally in your head, Paolo.

for the first time we had this great conference in San Diego

after a long period of non-person conference for the pandemic.

So it was great to meet you all for the first time

at Django.com US for me.

But at the same time, it was a very long trip for me

from Pescara to San Diego and very tiring weeks. So when we met the first day of Sprint with

I remember Simon, I remember Marius, you in the beach in the morning to have a few times for us,

I realized that we needed more to this time as a team, as a small group of people to hang out

together to network a bit to chat about our life and at the same time to sprint and based on the

history i found in the past another python community to organize small sprints to have

half time on working on something specific and half time into uh being together i i remember

proposed this idea and from that moment i tried to force every every opportunity and yeah at the end

carton did did a good move and uh forced me in some way to to transform this idea in reality with

the help of course and other people so it took three years but at the end we we did it yeah i

You proposed it.

You did a blog post.

There was a forum discussion.

Everyone's like, yeah, yeah, this is a great idea.

And then, of course, nothing happens.

And another year goes past and it still hasn't happened.

We keep talking about it.

And so DjangoCon Europe this year, right, at the sprints in Dublin,

we sat down and schemed it.

You posted somewhere.

You posted a picture.

Some notebook I picked up at the conference where I was making notes.

we sort of signed in blood that we would, uh, we would do the, do the event in Palo Verde.

that, uh, we need to create this, this event and Carton and me say, okay,

let's find the moment in the year and a place where we can meet at least the two

of us, we say, so if other people will join, uh, good, otherwise, uh, we'll

spent together a few few days and enjoy the time together but at the end there were more than two

we had in the end we had 14 people come which was um really good for like a first a first go because

it could have been it could have been just us and it could have been say you know four or five or

six people we could have got a house you know just one house group but then you know by the time we

got 14 we had like three tables that's right that were yeah sprinting together well i just have to

of uh everyone together all the days so we'll link to that but it was well documented

So I tried to aggregate all these posts together with some automatic script to create the blog post.

So you can feel.

And just while we're showing stuff, I'll just show it all.

So this was the website that went up about the event and then the forum to subscribe.

We've got a value map of some of the things that were achieved or not, you know, so that we can demonstrate the value of this.

I mean, let me phrase it as a question, Paolo.

for me um we we really demonstrated the value of it just some amazing things were were done in the

short and middle of time by the small group of people and i think now we can go from look isn't

this a nice idea to look and we did it and it's it's valuable and can we now get behind it as a

opened, one closed, right?

One's already merged, I think, yeah.

Yeah, so

it wasn't all just drinking in the sun.

some people contributed in some

documentation. I was working

on a script to create

the metrics of

the feature flank for DRM,

so we are

putting together a document that I think

we'll share in the next

weeks.

So not only the issue

on GitHub, but we discussed

more things than that.

We created more value

than what you can only see

in GitHub.

The better part, I think,

is the connection that we created

with each other.

We came back to having more connections

because new people showed up and people

that you met only

online for a long time

you spent quality time

together and it was very

interesting to do.

I was actually on the Met as well in Cyprus for a company event.

But I was following it every day.

And actually, we can mention, so Mark Smith, one of the people who was there, just joined JetBrains.

Actually, I don't know if it's, I don't think PyCharm, but so now he's a colleague of mine.

Yeah, we were in Papos, so the entire PyCharm team.

So kind of same thing you were saying, like a lot of these people I work with, but I hadn't

met in person.

And there's a similar mix of, you know, some fun stuff, some work, but nothing replaces

in person.

So it's important to have.

morning from 8am, which was early, we had breakfast, coffee, croissants, you know, stuff

to get us going.

And then till two o'clock when we broke for lunch and then people had the afternoon to explore.

They could, you know, walk in the woods or go to the beach, walk along the Cami de Ronda, which is the coastal pass we have here.

I think people seem to like it, no?

So I was able to go and swim in the sea, which was great.

I didn't do a long swim, but I saw a lot of the coast, a lot of fish, other people like Mariusz.

for multiple runs around

there. People have a drink,

people enjoy the beach or

the town. So

everyone did what they wanted to do

to relax and to

take a break after that and to work

in the morning.

Fosslet on some, Marius

documented his runs and one of them

was with Simon, but someone called him

the Paolo of runs at

Django events. So that's high phrased.

But I want to ask, so Django on the Med, the idea was that this is what, twice a year, right?

So it's been in Spain, but then it'll also be in Pescara.

Is that still, we're going to move to Pescara next year?

when Carton was able to show the Scara mark

in front of the camera.

I'm joking.

Yes, this is the plan to organize for this year

and in a period that is not high season.

So this year, the weather has been marvelous in Palafrugell.

We were able to run, to swim in the sea,

But it was not so crowded.

At the same time, it was sunny.

But the prices of everything was not high,

the flights and the hotel rooms.

And we want to try to do the same things in Pescara.

More or less, the weather is similar.

We are still in the Mediterranean,

specifically in the Arctic Sea.

And the original idea was to organize in April,

But we organized it in the beginning of May.

We'll let you update on that.

But the goal is the same,

to organize in an area not so touristic,

but still a great area to explore

in a period that is not so high season

to let everyone not spend a lot of money

to reach us and to be there together

and try to explore different areas

in the Mediterranean.

But we are open also to other locations, like Cyprus or other places.

The theme is very simple, you know, if you're in the Django community and you can see the Mediterranean not too far from your house, then, you know, let us know.

Yeah, I mean, France would be nice.

Somebody in France wants to.

Well, and Paolo, I remember back three years ago

when you first were talking about this,

you mentioned that the Plone community

that you worked in had something similar.

I think you said, you know, Plone had these events.

I think you even asked me, has Django ever had them?

And I don't think so.

Was that the initial or one of the inspirations?

It was the Python community as I've ever been.

And they used to organize a conference,

but also sprinted in this way.

If I remember correctly, the first one was in Sorrento.

After organizing a conference in Naples,

organized nearby in Sorrento in a hotel,

in a very similar way we did in Palafrugello.

Off-season, but still good weather and the sea.

But they also organized another one in Eastbrook.

during the

winter and

they go

skiing after.

But other

communities

organize very

similar events

like that.

And then there

is also the

core Python

developer that

organizes.

Usually the

last time they

organized, I

think, in

September in

Cambridge.

It was in

Cambridge.

Yeah, it was

at the

ARM

offices.

Exactly,

exactly.

So they

do very

similar things.

I asked

a lot of people but nobody remembers something like that of course we had sprints after conference

but this type of sprints are pretty different yeah and maybe that's a question for or just to

it feels to me again not having been at Django on the med those are people are a little bit tired

and it's not quite long enough and people sometimes come for a stay for one day but not two

does that match your experiences i know carlton you usually were you were fellowing so you were

started contributing because you a jango con you would have a number of new contributors turn up

each time and they all need you know they needed um some guidance otherwise they'd come they're

giving their time but they were they'd be wasting it now um jango on the med we had um i think five

people who were you know new contributors i mean they had some awareness they had some they weren't

totally new contributors but they they you know self-identified as new contributors and we managed

to get all of them going on you know good projects which was super um you know including um an 18

year old ticket on the cash framework which i would dearly love to see revolve there's a result

there's a there's an open pr for that yes let me hopefully get in um and some things about speeding

up um yeah that one that one there at the top yeah it's loading with my slow american internet

here we go um but you know we working on that over a couple days and um you know to see a new

contributor come in and pick up an 18 year old ticket it's got a ticket number of something like

five thousand five and a half thousand that's really low you know anything under ten thousand

is yeah these days and then there was work on speeding up and the static files the collection

and things that will make really big differences and these are from new contributors right these

are from people that haven't aren't established that aren't you know known within the community

already and so that was phenomenal for me um but the yeah i think you're right the end of a jango

con it's often you stay for the first day or and then people start flying out it's not enough time

to sit down and get a dedicated piece of work done.

Whereas in three days,

we had a really good amount of time.

I mean, Marish has taken on

implementing DB Native Cascade.

So when you've got the onDelete clause,

instead of having it done in Python,

so it collects all the objects

and walks the tree backwards,

you'll be able to use the database constraints there,

which for years has been one of the performance gotchas

when you start scaling up your project

and you have to delete a whole tree of objects

and you've got thousands of objects being deleted all in memory.

That's going to be a massive optimization for a lot of people.

And Marish said quite openly,

there's no way he could have got that done

without being at Django on the Med

where Simon Charette was there, Liddy was there,

Jacob Balls, the new fellow was there,

and the four of them together working on the ORM.

They're all ORM specialists.

And to have the four of them in the room working together.

there's this photo let me see if i oops not that one yeah that is yeah that's right on the wrong

yeah as so the four of them there with a whiteboard doing work that just

literally isn't possible to get done online right yeah yeah i i remember for the first time being

was very great for me because I

only was an attendant of the

conference. I had no

responsibility or talk

to deliver. So for me, it was

great. I went there

full of energy

and it was great to

speak with

everyone. I

share in every talk

this image with me, Marcus

and I'm working

my first

issue

then I realized after

conference by conference

how different can be the same event

the sprint because when I went

in other sprints

when I was supposed to deliver

a talk

I found myself at the end

of the conference

very tired

I tried to join

the sprints

I tried to share what I learned

but I realized also that

I already had a few energy

to share with other newcomers

and the worst is

when I help organize

in some conference

I usually try to help organize

other conference

in the case it's less energy you have

at the end so it depends from

what role you have in the conference

having the sprints at the end

can be something that you can

enjoy or you can put

a lot of energy or not so the idea

for this type of event is to

don't have to

have a lot of responsibility

create a talk or other

things, maintain the event

the less structured

as possible so

everyone can enjoy

Cartoon did a lot of job finding

for breakfast and other things so

it worked there

but I hope it was not

too much for him to

do and he was able to enjoy

things and what was interesting was because it was just you and i doing it at small scale there's

lots of things we couldn't do you know we knew we couldn't do them beforehand so that took the

pressure off in a way it's like give yourself commission to do it in a small scale and then

prove that it works and then we can you know get more people on board to to try and do more in the

future um but yeah i mean so i was working on what i've i've nicknamed the fast jango project um you

You know, it's just about benchmarking Django.

This came up in the roadmap.

So in the first morning, we held a roadmapping session

where we went through various things.

And we'll do a write-up of that and the findings that we had.

But it was a really great session.

And the conversations, again, in the room,

which just don't work the same on the forum or on the GitHub issues.

There's an understanding that you can reach between people

that sometimes gets missed in those written online environments.

But coming out of that, there was this talk about, you know, can we benchmark Django?

Can we profile it?

Can we improve the forms?

Okay.

So I didn't manage to get much actual coding done for that, but I did manage to get a Google

doc worked out with an outline of things that I can then come back to and work on.

And more, I can open up to, you know, contributors.

I can say, look, here's an outline of work that needs to be done.

Can we, you know, anyone fancy putting this bit together?

Anyone fancy putting that bit together?

and hopefully then we can get some speed momentum for that.

But I did have just enough time and energy to get that.

but I mean, there's the NanoDjango project,

but then I'm blanking on the name of it,

but that's the person you worked with on Google Summer of Code.

He's got a project. Maybe he has two projects.

So one, he did a thing called, I think it's called Django Rapid,

which is just a kind of example of a REST view layer

using what's called message spec serializers.

And then he profiled that against FastAPI

and showed that, you know,

you're getting comparable performance already with Django

using modern serialization techniques

compared to, say, FastAPI.

And that's a nice benchmark

because we always hear this story that Django's slow,

Django's slow, Django's slow.

No, Django's not slow.

If you, you know, a lot of the benchmarks

are comparing say async to sync and they're not running enough workers to really exercise the

CPUs on sync because you've got blocking operations so you know you that thread is just sat there

idle so you have multiple workers in order to get good throughput on a sync deployment and things

like that and the problems like that and also you know a lot of this is from a few years ago

um that's Django Bolt the second one lots it from a few years ago where Django wasn't as fast and

what we need to show is look this is what Django was doing this is what it's doing now this is

what's you're capable of that django bolt project there is a whole another exciting thing again so

that is using um a rust front end in front of um in front of django so the the why is why is python

historically gone slow when you've got this gill and the whole excitement one of the exciting things

about python 3.14 coming out is the the free threaded python of course try and say that with

the lisp, which will remove the gills so that you probably have to have proper concurrency

with threads, whereas previously we haven't had that.

Now what the Django Bolt project there is using Rust threads, which are proper OS threads

not bound by the gill to run each separate Python handler.

And he's getting results like, what does he say, they're achieving 60,000 plus requests

per second.

which is just lightning fast.

I mean, that's...

Faster than other frameworks that we know and love, too, I think.

No, absolutely.

And there's no reason why they couldn't do the same trick, right?

But what I think, it's kind of a trick, right?

Rust is much faster than Python.

Why is Rust much faster than Python?

Well, A, it's lower-level code, it's compiled downcode,

but also you haven't got these GIL problems and whatnot.

Well, if you use Rust to take the GIL problem out of it,

you can make Python go quickly.

You've always been able to do that.

But what Farhan is doing is demonstrating this.

And hopefully with that and with some nice benchmarks and some blog posts and other such

things, pulling all of this work together, we can help change this narrative that we

have in the community that somehow Django is slow when really it's not.

From custom software development to consulting, team augmentation, or opening an office in

Bulgaria, they're ready to take your project to the next level.

right yeah i mean benchmarks right if it's not measured sorry it doesn't count in a way i mean

there's the same thing going on with llms right like with what is we were discussing with jeff

triplet i think that episode will comes out after this but you know 42 percent or something of the

sui verified is just django tests and so yeah it's like we all love a number but it's like where did

about doing a blog post about, oh, Django's so slow,

and then getting some ORM stuff, you know, might be costly,

and then just tweaking and going, oh, actually, if I did this,

then it comes out like this.

Oh, yeah, where this, what it comes out as is lightning fast

and more than fast enough for any service level requirement

you might actually have in the real world.

sometimes it's not correct at all.

I remember a very great talk of Antonio Pugni,

a core Python developer at EuroPython.

He was demonstrating how Python is slow for certain things,

but in a way that it doesn't matter,

for example, in the web content,

because when you have to interact with other services,

services like your cache, your database,

the things that matter is not how the language is fast or not,

Because more the time, you were waiting for others to give you content.

The great things we saw during the Django on the Mad was to see two great gurus of DRM,

like Simon and Mariusz, working on trying to find a way to improve.

Mariusz was working to improve and speed up the delete phase.

So the more we work on that topic,

I think the more the world system will be faster.

And another interesting thing is the asynchronous connector

in the DB is another great pull request

that is still waiting for to be completed and merged.

And the more we know about this topic,

the more we can improve.

What I tried to explain in an article I wrote

just before the jungle on the map. I got you. I was going to mention it. Here it is.

We need to measure what feature we have and what number we can improve. The more feature we have

for all the database, the better will be the experience for everyone with Django and the

feeling that Django per se is not slow. The language is not something that impacts so much

frustrates me about benchmarks is you know people just do these synthetic benchmarks and

so rarely do they talk about but how many requests per second you actually need what is your service

level requirement how what is the throughput you need most you know most websites if it if it did

100 requests a minute that would be like amazing but you can do thousands of requests a minute

without even breaking a sweat on the small list of instances.

And yet people are like, oh, I can't use Django, it's slow.

So how fast does your service really need to go?

And it doesn't.

The second thing, though, is just on that DB grid,

Paolo and Jacob Wald were able to sit there in the first morning

and they were able to get the proof of concept

for actually putting together the real data for your grid there.

So that's dummy data, right, still, Paolo?

Yeah.

Yeah, so the idea there was to demonstrate that it's what we need.

But you had, within a couple of hours, you had proof of concept.

we already have in the database driver for the four databases we had internally.

And also, we found a way to improve this documentation.

But the proof of concept has been made the first morning together with Chaco.

to call out you did have at least one sponsor right um python hispania we had um three yeah

dsf um gave us some sponsorship as well so thank you dsf and also but a button down um sponsored

the newsletter which you know it was it all counts it all counts and it i it was something that if i

hadn't had that i'd have been like well how am i going to do this so thank thank you again button

down there and as well these gentlemen the palo verde which are the council in palo verde they

provided the venue and you know lots of help there so um you know i wanted to thank them yeah

He was very, very effective in helping us learn how to track everything, how to provide the value of what we did.

Sometimes we want to solve an issue and then we start thinking to the next one because it's what we do, it's what we like.

did a great job in helping us to tracking everything and maybe we'll share uh something

after after the the event it's a lot of knowledge on this field so it's been very very

effective in doing that i think also carton appreciate that yeah no yeah i think

If we can really point to something that, you know, look, these concrete things were achieved, then not only can we get the community on board for the future additions, not only can we, you know, help it to grow into a bigger event, but we can say to sponsors, look, and you really should be backing this because look what comes out of it.

You know, there was this line on the Python blog about the core developer sprints there, that the sprints are the best bit of a conference.

And the great thing about the core developer sprints was, well, they're sprints without the conference bit.

Well, same on Django on the Med, right?

It's where the work's going to get done ultimately.

So to be able to demonstrate that is great.

And for Daniele to bring his expertise there is something that we just don't have.

You know, it's a set of tools that we're not equipped with otherwise.

they should definitely sign up for the newsletter on the Django and the Med site.

I mean, we'll feature it in the Django News newsletter, but that'll be the announcement.

and get power on board contributing to it

so we can get it moving forward.

But yes, basically, keep your eyes peeled.

We will be pushing it forward

for May next year in Pescara.

Okay.

I think we're at the book section of the show, Carlton.

Do you want to go first?

So I'm going to say,

I've been reading this book,

which is How Infrastructure Works by Deb Chaklala.

It's a wonderful book.

It talks about water supplies

and other such infrastructure things,

but how they form systems

and how we fit into those systems.

And it's kind of perspective changing.

You know, it's like everyone likes to think

that they're this freestanding thing,

but we're very much not.

We're very much nodes in a much bigger thing.

And I find I'm really enjoying it.

I recommend it.

How did you find out about it?

How do these things cross your attention?

I was flying past on Mastodon one day

and I was like, okay, I'll check that out.

And then I Googled it

and then i was like okay wow that looks great and then i'm you know i ordered it and it arrived and

it's like oh yes this is this is a lovely perspective changing way of looking at it um

um she's some kind of engineer or maybe she does a teaching teaching it but you know the way she

places the human being in the built in their built environment in their their social environment not

so much socially but in their physical environment the built physical environment that we depend on

so much um and he's able to talk through the interconnectedness of it all it's it's eye-opening

really i think um all right i'll add it yeah she's a professor uh actually here you're near boston so

right okay there you are yeah she talks a lot about boston actually in the water supply one

reread something already read this was not planned by the way this was not planned

but yeah i'm working on the update well yeah i mean carlton you've i mean carlton paulo you've

long talked about a book you might want to do is there anything you want to say around that right

is that can we say that publicly a book that you might write since you've written a lot around

in consultancies we a lot of time we tried to help customer to improve the performance of the

project or start using best practice so it's something that i i try to to write down and to

a lot of a list of things to do or things to experience and maybe it's something i can show

in the future

if I will have

enough time

to

be there

and write

write down

all the things

and we'll see

I think

I'm pretty sure

in my experience

like a sprint

you have to

you need a chunk of time

to commit to it

because

you can't just

20 minutes here

30 minutes there

I mean maybe

some people can

but you really need

ideally a couple hours

ideally a couple days

because

just you know

there isn't a one-to-one

time to words

on the page

uh process but like code right you know it all counts but yeah yeah you need these blocks blocks

of focus well i would i would read it of course if it comes out thanks um and so for me i've got

this um more everything forever yet another book about ai overlords space empires and uh silicon

valley control um i still haven't quite gotten enough of this i know you're a bit bored of the

topic carlton but i'm finding new ways to be enraged by uh what's happening so i'm impressed

by your stamina on how many ai books you can read like well i'm just not that knowledgeable about it

so uh i'm starting to see some repeated repeats and patterns um yeah i mean you know everything

comes down to people even though it's code right it all comes down to people and so if you just

like in any organization i find if you you look at the background of the top person in an organization

and you can tell the the dna of it so if it's a salesperson it's a sales b2b organization if it's

an engineer like jet brains pie charm that's a different thing both have strengths and weaknesses

but it all yeah people people are endlessly interesting i think that's what it is for me

carlton the tech you know but the people and the motivations and also i'm i'm sorry i'm forgetting

who someone that um maybe it was is it mario someone at jingo con us mentioned this book in

particular in one of the talks yeah and that's how it popped onto your radar that's how it popped

on my radar i was like other one you know these ones are fun too because i can read them so fast

you know they're they're not it's not deep literature you know i can blast through it in

a couple sessions and pick something up take some notes and then yeah um what else well we've got

johnson he's um just released a new package called django http compression i can put the link yes

um now what this is is a like um kind of middleware type thing um which will apply modern um

encryption um compression tori so we've got the gzip middleware right but there are much

better um compression algorithms now there's um z standard which is now in um the python 3.4

standard library

Brotli

and Gzip as well

and

if you just swap

and use one of the

modern ones

you're going to get

better compression

and better performance

and it's just not great

it's like yeah

this is wonderful

and you can configure

this at say the

NGINX level

or whatever your

web server is

but a lot of times

your Django project

is sat on a

generic platform

as a service

and you want to use

one of these

middlewares yourself

I think this is

a super project

it wraps it up, it demonstrates it, it gives the

proof of concept, and I think this should be on the

path for inclusion

in Django Core. It's

precisely the kind of thing that Django

sort of packages itself. It's not, you know,

it's generally useful, it's something that we can recommend

to everybody.

Sort of thing you don't really want

to be implementing yourself.

So I'd like to see

this gain some pickup

and, you know, if it's

once the bugs have been worked out, there's

no reason why this can't be, you know,

the projects part to you. So I'll give one, which is based Pyrite, which one of my colleagues at

PyCharm is a co-maintainer on. So this is the Pyrite fork with type checking. And so type

checking generally is an area I need to learn a bit more about. Obviously, I've done basic stuff,

but there's all these new things coming out. So Astral has TY. There's, was it PyRefly? I'm

saying that wrong that that that facebook meta just put out um typing typing is big um and

specifically on pie charm we've long had our own built-in type checker um and we're you know we

hired morgan who's great to figure out what the next generation looks like so yeah i'm playing

there was just um you know my pie and then there was the microsoft one which it was good but then

it was closed source and didn't have plugins so you know or was it or like maybe the type check

a bit was open source but then the the vs code extension was closed source and so it's a bit like

and then microsoft hiring people and then but then there's well now it seems like there's three or

should be using but it's nice that there's options yeah no there's a lot i mean python tooling in

quite sure i mean so again morgan my colleague he's got opinions and he's tasked with sorting

out exactly what the next generation looks like within pycharm i haven't prepared a project myself

article, maybe, was the new

release for

Python 3.14 that added

the support for the

UAD version 7.

Also, that was released

a few days ago. Also,

Postgres 18

released

the last month, added this new feature.

So, in theory,

it's already been able, we

have already been able to use

that directly in Django,

and we want to experiment on that. We had a chat

But with Simon and Lily, Jungle on the right, it's been interesting to see that Jungle can already use this new feature that are very interesting in the context of the database.

So try to experiment and let us share what you find, if you can.

Yeah.

Well, as we wrap up, Paolo, is there anything you want to share

about what comes next for you, professionally or otherwise?

It's been a year of consultancy,

and I want to find something new, of course.

If I can, working with Python and Django,

the things I'm more experienced at, also with Tim.

And if someone is searching for an engineer,

I'm hoping to...

Yes, and other than that,

we'll start working on the next edition of Django,

Django on the Mat for the sprints.

We'll see.

If anyone doesn't already know how to contact you,

LinkedIn is the best way.

So we'll put a link to your LinkedIn profile.

But I would hire you.

If I could, so.

Carlton?

Yeah, all my contacts on the website,

other than LinkedIn,

if other people are more comfortable using,

you know, Mastodon or AnyMail,

just AnyMail is on my website.

It's still just me and Mark.

We're still going.

You know, I want to get us to the point

where we've got a little pool to hire people

because every six months or so,

somebody, you know,

some superstar from the Django system,

ecosystem is on you know it comes up and you're like oh i need to grab them and i can't they keep

there i i was there three years ago when you first were mentioning this palo and i think i've been

there through many of the steps and so i'm very uh pleased that the two of you took the initiative

and did the hard work to make it happen because it needed to happen right i think both for the

Django community but also like the sprints weren't enough and so hopefully this sets a precedence

to do because it was the first time and it was just the two of us and what okay those things

are totally fine but of all the things we wanted we we it was just a brilliant event and um

read some posts that people shared, Iris and Daniel and others, and how they appreciated the

fact that being there and meeting for real new people, speaking with them, and how they was,

for them, was able to achieve something that they waited for so long to achieve

and in other contexts was not possible. Seeing that people get something useful from that and

And he joined was very, very great and hope that in the future will be more initiative like that.

Not only maybe Django development, you can organize also in that place in the world.

Well, I mean, Django cons are, there's Django con India this year, you know, Django cons are spreading, hopefully Django con Africa.

So yeah, Django on the blank, but you don't have to do all the work, Carlton and Paolo.

That would be the goal.

Paolo, thank you for taking the time.

Thank you for coming on.

Thank you for sharing this.

Again, I wanted to hear from Carlton and you how it went.

And hopefully this shares the story with other people as well who weren't able to attend.

Thanks for having me to be able to share this, which you all have been incredible to do.

After a long time, we spoke for the first time together.

And now we are talking in the past.

Yes.

In the past times.

Yeah.

Yes.

so thank you

Carlton

did you have

something to say

no no no

don't let me

interrupt you

okay yeah

don't let me

don't interrupt me

doing the ending

so we're at

DjangoChat.com

thanks everyone

for listening

and we'll see you

next time

bye bye

bye

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