Transcript: PyCon US 2025 - Elaine Wong & Jon Banafato

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Hi, welcome to another episode of Django Chat.

I'm Will Vincent, joined by Carlton Gibson.

Hello, Carlton.

Hello, Will.

chairs with us today, Elaine Wong and John Bonifato.

Welcome.

Yeah, thanks for coming on.

I'm going this year in May in Pittsburgh.

I haven't been since 2019, actually.

So maybe we'll start with how did you two end up running this major conference that's one of the biggest in the world in the tech community?

Like is this your first first year for both of you doing it uh as as head chairs?

So this is the first year for us.

Um so last year I was Marietta's co-chair where she showed me the ropes and went, hey, this is how you you know handle a 3,000-person tech conference.

I went, I am no Marietta.

And I was like, hey John, do you like conference organizing, right?

I hear I hear you you love it so much, you have a Discord community about it.

Would you like to join in on all this fun?

And John, because he organizes conference chats, but of course, love to be here.

So it's been uh us trying to handle 2025 with, of course, the lovely PSF staff who are fantastic at keeping all the fun logistics of a lot of things that go behind the scenes organizing a conference that you never think about.

So uh that's that's how we kind of started.

It was Marietta asking uh me nicely, and I went, okay, this is this is way too much one person, and then big John and John graciously agreed, which I'm very very, very painful for.

I just want to pick you up on that.

You said it's to way too much for one person.

You think it is, you know, because like

Um I work in the news.

So my my life went from hey, I can, you know, do the stuff at night to like being glued to like my computer and my alert systems to like since we've had changing news every couple of days, I'm also a Canadian, so um US tariffs have impacted us greatly.

Yeah, right.

And this is why I'm very thankful John is uh John is around to help pick up some pieces while I go and deal with the world at at large.

So you're two months out.

How are you two going with it?

How are you feeling as it's the runway comes in?

I'm excited.

Uh, you know, I I was uh so to add some extra context there.

I I was not co-chair last year, right?

Uh Elaine was co-chair with uh with Mariata as chair, and so I'm co-chair this year.

Um and uh last year was my first PyCon US back since 2019.

Um and and and we'll you know I'll uh I'll say this and and I think a lot of people um will understand what I mean what when I do.

Uh it felt like PyCon, right?

Um, and and so that was uh I wasn't quite sure what to uh right.

I was a little frazzled, first conference in a while.

Um, and then as soon as I walked into the expo hall, somebody saw me, said, Hey John, and fell right into step.

Um so uh you know the I'm I'm excited to get back to that.

Um uh I I'm I'm still not back to my my previous level of uh of you know conferences per year that I attend, and and and that's where I get a lot of my uh you know a lot of my energy to do other projects and things from.

So um I'm I'm super pumped to be uh going back to Pittsburgh in in a couple of months.

Um and uh yeah, I mean things are things are moving along uh you know at this stage quickly.

Um, you know, there have been uh a bunch of back on US announcements in the in the recent weeks, um, and and so schedules are online, things like that, um, which is always a huge milestone uh and and and very exciting to see because uh that's when it becomes real for a lot

of people.

If it can be up to a week, right?

Between there's the tutorials, the main conference with talks, the sprints, the job fair, I think I'm missing something, right?

Like I know some of my colleagues are going for the full week, uh, I'm coming in for half the week.

It's kind of it's kind of what you make of it, right?

I mean, given that it's just a big conference that it is a week if you want it to be.

So um, you know, uh over over a full week.

I think for um many folks who are coming for just the core talks, uh, that's gonna be, you know, three days plus plus travel.

Um but if if you're there for tutorials and sponsor presentations and and code sprints, um if you're if you're working on a uh a project that you know this may be one of the few times uh a bunch of maintainers are on a room together every year.

Um and so those sorts of opportunities are uh usually really exciting to uh to to take advantage of.

And if if you're not aware that those things happen, uh now you are and and you might consider staying a few extra days.

And I remember just what you said, it feels coming from a Django, Django cons are hundreds of people versus thousands.

So on the one hand, it felt overwhelming, but as soon as I walked in, I saw people I knew, and then I got, you know, there's the what do they call them?

It's not the lightning, the breakout sessions where people do the write you write on the board.

And what are those called?

Open spaces, right.

And I know, for example, Flask, um, the other Python web framework, uh, doesn't have a dedicated conference, but they're doing a Flask Con at PyCon, I believe.

So to your point, you can kind of find your community within the over you know umbrella of PyCon US itself.

Like I know every year there's always a juggling space.

Um, there's also kind of um, I forget it was like Silk Aerob, not Silk, like Eric Aerobics.

I'm trying to remember.

There's one where it's just basically a lot of just interesting folks doing stretches and um and just having a nice hangout time.

So it's uh it's it's really a choose your own adventure for a week.

A lot of people love giving a talk at PyCon US.

We have a great team um led by Felipe who kind of is in charge of kind of reviewing all the talks, um giving a nice rating, and and then out of that just kind of figuring out like the schedule itself.

It's it's quite uh it's quite an experience.

If you had never seen a talk review happen before, I highly recommend volunteering for a future PyCon US, do some talk reviews and kind of see the nitty-gritty behind the scenes of it.

Um I am like um that team did a fantastic job kind of just weeding out having to weed out a lot of really good submissions, all like all of them were fantastic.

Some of them okay, but a lot of them were were just kind of like neck and neck, and um, and it it was a bit of a battle.

But oh ultimately, um we they landed on a set of talks that they were really that kind of encompasses a wide variety of uh what's been happening in the Python um ecosystem.

And because you can't just have like 58 talks all on the same, you know, m microinternas of the Django ORM.

Like that that wouldn't make a balanced program.

Like how do I make audio using Python?

So just some of the things to look forward to, or even like there's a talk that I'm kind of like fascinating by, which is like how to learn Japanese with Python, which is in the schedule this year.

So kind of a lot of interesting applications of Python.

And um and yeah, it's it should hopefully there's something for everybody.

Um and I'm really excited by a lot of it.

I'm excited by a lot of the variety, and also there's also a lot of variety even in our Charles track, which is our Spanish speaking track, which has a variety of good technical talks as well going in.

My Spanish is incredibly terrible by just judging by the titles themselves.

It's kind of a good variety of uh topics that isn't tied to just one section of Python by any means.

It's a lot of applications and a lot of best practices and yeah I it's I'm very happy this is alive.

I think that's a a nice addition.

What year I graduated I guess is the I feel

I mean just triple check.

um yeah and so Pycon US figure six times that um and so as a result of that uh there's more opportunity uh and you know I'm sure DjangoCon US does awesome work uh and and does uh exciting uh exciting uh experimental programs too um but uh pycon us has the kind of physical space required to uh run some of these experimental things like uh if

you want to uh propose that something be added to PyCon US as as kind of a core offering like Charles is now um the hatchery is a place for those sorts of events to uh kind of try out uh their their initial uh couple run throughs right so um you mentioned earlier uh flaskcon uh happens inside of PyCon US uh that's part of the hatchery

program uh there's also uh a a community organizers summit for uh folks who organize conferences and meetups and all sorts of other um communities around uh the the broad python ecosystem um uh and there's a there's a uh uh humble data uh uh uh summit happening this year as well so uh each year there's there's a uh a call for applications

for people saying hey I would really like to organize an event at PyCon US um and there's a the ha a hatchery committee that reviews those applications sees uh kind of similar to a talk proposal process uh you know which of these uh are are good fits for expanding the offerings of the conference as a whole

en care of so all you've got to focus on is doing your the the new thing rather than build it bootstrapping a conference around it which is no no mean feat.

ake out for you right because I guess Mariotta are people who were on the ground last year they probably hopefully give you some tips on how to improve it this year.

And if it doesn't we can rearrange it for another year.

So uh so for example Pittsburgh is a bit of a different layout than normal um it seems like you have to run through like some of the talks are on the other side of the very large expo hall on the second floor.

So just kind of understanding that flow and knowing where to go really helps a lot um from year one to year two.

Knowing where to put information booths because knowing where people were bunching up and getting lost last year.

And of course my favorite which is like where where do you go when you lose something like having a a lost and found that's easy to find was uh some of the things that that kept was in my mind for this year because I lose things all the time and of course you can't go to PyCon US without accidentally getting a lot of swag.

So now you're just like carrying out extra stuff.

So like you might actually forget something important like your actual bag with your actual laptop and not like the nice bag you got with like 12 water bottles and like four t-shirts.

Uh normally I'm just wandering around but instead I'll be planted, you know, doing demos.

We're we're doing book signings with various Python offer authors for example Eric Mathis um some other people I'll forget off the top of my head.

So it's I yeah I think I I think well I'm a backup so if well I'll come on well that'd be shy.

No I am a I'm a I am a backup no we have um gosh who oh Matt Harrison um pan effective pandas and other books Eric oh I think there's someone else but yeah I'm I'm in there as a backup if if we really have to slum it I can talk about Django but we'll try to keep it Python and data science.

Maybe actually that that was a question I had for for both of you.

So we're very tunnel vision.

We think the web is where it's at and you know within that Django but as the two of you look at the Python landscape how do you divide it up?

Because I know historically PyCons like way back in the day web was kind of new and hip and cool and there was like a lot of Django and Flask talks and then data science took over and now I don't even does data science refer to AI and ML and data analysis?

Like how how do the two of you survey the ecosystem?

I'm I'm genuinely curious because I I can't put a good definition on what Python is used for these days other than you know everything.

I like uh John was like oh hey did you know that the Pittsburgh privates are using Python um to do analysis and I was like that's awesome but at the same time I feel like I use Python every day to do a variety a wide variety of random things I never thought I'd use Python for.

I mean I use Python to program my remote because I'm too lazy to find my IR remote in this day and age.

Like it's well

But I think that's that's really changing because all these ecosystems are developing around it, right?

In the same way data science used to be like I'm giving a talk actually tonight at the Boston Python meetup around Django and data science.

And one of the points I want to make as a is I realize many people don't know what it was like 10, 15 years ago where I I remember being in Silicon Valley and people doing data science, they're using like R or like MATLAB and you know or SAS even, right?

Python was this new thing.

And now people just assume Python is for data science and but like all these you know Scikit and NumPy and PyTorch and all these things are they're so new I think it can be lost that it wasn't always the case right like now it's just like oh yeah Python's for data science Python's for everything but it's all these things have built up around it I think because so many people found it easy to use and powerful enough.

So that's that makes me feel old but actually hopefully it'll be interesting for people to be like, you know, I have this like timeline both of web frameworks because they haven't been around that long and then yeah even in data science like it just even 10 years ago you wouldn't say Python was the default.

Whereas now the people I know especially I'm in I'm in Boston so a lot of people doing science anyone who's using R, which a lot of them still are they they sort of have this sneaking suspicion they should be doing Python.

So it's been an interesting transition.

Yeah, right.

Well, and that and then they're all like, Hey, Will, maybe I should learn programming because AI is going to take my job.

And I'm like, You're a postdoc at Harvard.

What are you worried about?

But they have yeah, anyways, not to get off topic, but it's interesting that it to see that div you know, to be old and to see that developed, because I'm sure that most of the people in the audience in their 20s are just gonna be like, Oh yeah, Python, like obviously it was always the case.

Whereas, like, no, there was this whole two to three transition that had problems and there was existential questions, and and yet here we are today.

Um Elaine pointed out, um, my my usual approach to uh like if I'm if I'm talking about a company in in a Python context, I'm like surely they use Python somewhere, right?

And when I say company, I mean like uh you know, any any company, right?

Um if you look at some uh sponsors for uh lots of conferences, they're they're not necessarily uh the ones you would expect when you're like, oh, there's a lot of tech there, right?

Um there's plenty of tech at uh uh uh companies that are not uh would not describe themselves as tech companies, right?

Uh and where there's tech, there's you know, usually Python.

Um certainly there are exceptions to that, but especially as right, as companies grow, they gain some more tools in their stack, and uh, you know, the the more of those they they use, the likier at least one of them is gonna be Python, right?

Because it's uh if they're doing uh data science, ai, um web development, uh, you know, their their infra team a lot of the time is gonna be using Python for uh or or a you know a uh an application developed in Python uh to manage their cloud infrastructure and things like that.

So there's uh there's a ton of different um contexts through which somebody might use Python.

And I and I think that's one of the bigger tasks for the uh the the program team, right?

That the talk selection, uh balancing all of those different things and and making sure uh that everybody in the room has something uh to to really catch their interest is uh uh is uh an undertaking to to be sure.

Yeah, we've got to mention Jeff.

Yeah, there we are.

But you run this this monthly meetup for people who um are organizing conferences, right?

Community organizers, conference chats.

Um and so there would usually be a an open space like, hey, I'm a meetup organizer, I want to talk to other meetup organizers, I'm a conference organizer, I want to talk to other conference organizers.

Uh I you know, I'm here for the Python, and that's awesome.

Uh, but I am looking for somebody else to uh to discuss catering contracts with because that's uh you know, those are the sorts of uh the sorts of things that go into uh maybe some of the the lesser scene uh aspects of behind the scenes of conferences.

Uh and so conference chat started out as uh really just a a calendar invite.

Um it was you know later in the year and I was done with the last conference I was going to attend for, you know, four or five months, and it was like, hey, who wants to get on a call?

Uh and Jeff was there and Elaine was there, and uh, and and we talked about uh you know what's what's coming up in the world of conferences.

Um and that was late 2019.

So that turned out to be pretty different from what we expected.

Um, because I I didn't end up signing my catering contracts that the that next year.

Um and uh, you know, I'm obviously biased here.

It's a it's it's a group that I organize, but uh I think it's a uh it's been a really valuable resource, uh, especially for folks who were saying to themselves, like, well, we're gonna figure out how to do an online event because we want to continue running this.

Uh and let's not do this in in a vacuum, right?

Let's talk with other conference organizers who are trying to figure out how how they make this happen, right?

Um because conference organizing is uh and you're gonna have to cut me off at some point because otherwise I'm gonna go for your days.

Uh conference organizing.

I'm sure he will.

Because Pygotham and I I could I sort of gave up.

I saw there's too many you're involved with.

What is the like bullet

point list?

Um I I try to volunteer in some way uh at any conference I attend.

Uh and sometimes that's volunteering for a uh a program committee um to help with talk selection.

Sometimes that's uh you know going and uh stacking chairs at the end of a talk because uh people are trying to break down uh and everybody wants to get home.

Uh and and you know, I I try to pitch in there too.

Um I think the only uh two I can really claim a you know larger organizational role in um uh are are Pygotham and and now Pycon PyCon US.

Um but uh you know Elaine and I I I think uh I say this about a lot a lot of uh a lot of folks in these communities, right?

We had been in a room together before, I'm sure.

Uh but we we first actually met at PyCon Canada.

Uh and uh and I'm sure that uh that you know as soon as I got there, I I I said something to the dune of if you need anything, put me to work.

Right.

So Right.

From custom software development to consulting, team augmentation, or opening an office in Bulgaria, they're ready to take your project to the next level.

Well, and and then Elaine, for you, your background is really interesting because you're you have a a media broadcast background, and yet here you are in the Python space for many years now.

Um, based on the Boston Globe.

Uh so there's actually an annual conference for journalists uh that kind of use computers.

It's called NICAR, it's like the National Institute for Computer Assisted Reporting.

And one of one of the first years I went, the Boston Globe guys were there who were part of the original investigation.

And they were kind of just chatting about like that whole surreal experience of like basically, wow, we spreadsheets, investigative journalism, like that.

That's that felt so new back in the day.

Now it just feels like constant um folks like uh at those conferences at NICAR, like you're learning how to like use your Chrome inspector to scrape and like how do you make a Django app to then like automate a bunch of the stuff for you?

Like it's kind of very fascinating.

We actually had one year um the natural language processing folks came in and gave a talk about like how to like parse text better and all that fun stuff.

So it's it's kind of like um as when I was butting up going, you know, going through the ranks of being a journalist, like that was the most fascinating part for me was to say, oh, like I can interview humans, I can, you know, do streeters and you know talk to people, but but this whole world of like, oh, there's you know, magical, possibly magical data just lying around waiting to be exposed.

I was hooked and started learning Python because Python was easy to get into.

There was a huge community for support, not just with NICAR, but also the Python community at large.

That's when I started going to PyLadies, when I started attending Python Toronto.

Anytime I had a question, this was the first community where like I'll be like, hey, I have no idea what I'm doing.

And someone always would come up and actually in a very gracious and not in a mansplaining or kind of like, oh, I I'm better than you type situation, just kind of sat down and went, What's your question?

Let me get you to that next step.

As someone who had no idea what they're doing, that was so refreshing.

And then going to Pi Ladies was even um a more because it's because um as some of these Python meetups back in the day were quite large.

So like Py Ladies allowed me to get into a smaller group, a more focused group.

And it was just all basically everyone was helping each other.

And I think I think the the good old saying is always that you come for the language, you always come for Python, but you always stay for the community.

And that's how it all really began.

And of course, um, much to what John mentioned, like, how do you give back, right?

How like I would go then go to conferences and I also will be stacking chairs and then talking to people, like, how can I be of use?

So I kind of leveraged the stuff I'm good at, which is stacking chairs and wrangling people into rooms and telling people, okay, get out of the hallway.

Keynote's about to start.

And uh that's how I kind of transitioned the whole conference organizing section because um it was something that was a lot of fun and you meet a lot of great people through this opportunity.

And I felt like I was trading like my ability to stack chairs for like coding tips.

Which is a fair yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like you just need to do something, right?

To just at a conference or or Carlton I make the point a lot, you know, open source, you know, why do open source?

Like there's so many selfish reasons to do it, not least of which is you just get in there and you see where things can help and you meet people, and that opens so many more doors than just I don't know, endlessly going through textbooks and coder problems on your own, right?

Because it's ultimately, I feel like there's a base minimum of intelligence and aptitude, and then above that, it's just attitude.

Like I always think attitude trumps aptitude 99% of the time.

And uh it's that's where I think um you know that that that serendipity uh is a really big selling point uh for me.

And and I think um if you're not right, I know it's it's hard for for a lot of people to really put themselves out there like that.

Like I'm uh I'm not a necessarily a socially outgoing person, but uh but in those spaces, I I I have always felt you know pretty welcomed and and been able to just be like, hey, I'm John, let's talk about you know whatever it is you're working on these days.

Uh and and you you you end up in in rooms with people who are doing very exciting things.

And that's uh one of the things I personally get out of conferences a lot.

The the PyCon US, which is the first one I went to, Pike first PyCon I went to, the first meal was lunch buffet, and you know, head down I didn't know anyone, and I look up and it was Guido like two feet from me.

No, I played it cool.

I just was like gave a nod, you know, sort of like seeing like a a celebrity.

I went, you know, and then I found and then I I was like, oh yeah, what's up?

And then I found some Django people, but I was like, oh okay, like it's to your point, like everyone's here.

Um, and everyone's accessible and it just humanizes things.

And you know, one one of the things I'm sure you you both are familiar with is the energy that you carry onwards.

You know, so for Django, we have only a couple big conferences, and we really miss that during COVID.

We missed that energy, like things did kind of slow down.

Um, so there's that whole you come out of the conference and you're both socially tired, but also I think energized, right?

To finally do all these things that maybe you were thinking about before.

That's how I get a lot of uh a lot of motivation to uh and and inspiration, I guess, uh to go and work on bigger projects, um, to continue some of the project work that maybe came out of conversations at conferences.

Uh and I see a bunch of people do do the same kinds of things, right?

I've I've been at conferences where uh folks have started a new open source project.

Uh, and they said, you know, hey, I'm thinking about working on this thing during the sprints.

Uh, and if anybody wants to come talk about that, uh, you know, I'll be at this table.

Uh or uh, you know, I've been at conferences that have inspired other conferences to start.

Uh, and and that's super cool to see in a in a very meta way of like, oh, I could bring this home, right?

Like I this is a great feeling.

I want to have this in my town.

Uh and uh, you know, that that's some of the uh the prouder, I guess, uh weird to use that word, but um

yeah, situation.

This podcast is exactly that.

I went to my first Django Con, I met Carlton, and I went, wow, that's great.

I wish there could be more of it and everyone could have it.

And at the time there wasn't a dedicated Django podcast, and here we are six years later, still talking about it.

So that's one child of a conference in a way, yeah.

Like you see these things and you can be like, yeah, that's that's grown a bit.

It's not, you know, it's not proud in the in the pride sense, you know.

Badness, it's just, you know, I was part of helping bring that to be, and that's lovely.

Can I ask you both so you've both been involved in conference organizing right through the COVID pandemic, right through the online only phase, and we're back to in-person conferences.

What what do you think were great things about the online experience?

And then what do you think they they they lack in?

Then what can we learn going forward?

I mean, during the online years, it's just we could still stay connected, right?

It was still something to look forward to, and knowing that I will bump into at least two or three of you online for sure for those couple of days versus oh, you know, um, time zones and things get busy.

I like I purposely block those days off so that I know I'll be spending them talking to Will or Carlton or John, right?

Um, but uh there's just some something about the energy of in-person that I I can't put my finger on is just something magical about hearing someone just scream from across the hallway because they haven't seen you in the past year and say hello, right?

It's like, oh, or like being able to just meet brand new people from around the world that might you might not ever approach, but you just happen to because they were standing in front of you in the buffet line, or you're just walking down the expo hall and you turned around and you made eye contact with someone, but all of a sudden it's like, hey, it's like hi, and realizing that you now found the other random data journalist from another part of the world, like Germany, and you're saying hello to each other for the first time, right

You say, Oh, you're all so-and-so.

So like last year they had like the varying sizes of the Guidos uh cutouts they could take a picture with.

So there's also a lot of just fun Easter eggs kind of making poking fun at at ourselves, but at the community as well, but also like using it as like that leverage just to like be that icebreaker to meet someone or just something to even post back home where someone's like, Oh, you met Guido?

And you're like, Yeah, he's like three feet tall.

Um but but also like it's such a fun community in in in that like in within person, like like I I think last year I was like trading stickers and chocolate and like it's kind of an interesting way to kind of randomly just be like, Hey, would you like a bar of chocolate?

Like, oh great, thanks.

Who are you?

And but it's just like even the bar of chocolate was just like it was very nice meeting you.

And then um, and then it was like the person's name and you know, wishing me a very nice day, and which I thought was like the nicest thing on earth because who these are things that you don't think about when you come to the conference, right?

Just like the overall niceness, the fact that you're trading stickers, the fact that um people are just genuinely happy to be there.

Like it's I uh to me it to me it felt like I never been to overnight camp, but I'm assuming this is the equivalent of going to like an overnight summer camp for a week, where you know you there's a bunch of fun stuff that's gonna happen, you're seeing all your good friends, you're gonna meet a bunch of cool people, and then in the end there'll be probably a little bit of shenanigans if if you feel like it, or you're happily just reading a book in your bunk at the end of the night.

Yeah.

Like it it was really nice, knowing that I could see a lot of my friends that I couldn't during those years, during the COVID years.

But there's just something I don't know, maybe maybe it's just because the whole screaming down hallway is something I'm very excited to do.

And now you'll probably hear me screaming a lot um at PyCon in Pittsburgh where I'm just like, hey, lovely to see you all.

Yeah.

I mean, they they can the the two types of events can serve different needs.

And like for for folks who can't make it, like online is a lovely way for for it to stay connected and being able to still be part of a community doing um and and um and still be part of PyCon US.

I assume something similar or

onna be standing room only tomorrow, right?

Those are so those are some special moments.

Um and and that sort of thing is is particularly hard to uh find an analogy to with with an online event, um especially from the context of uh the ones that I've been part of have been primarily like pre-recorded talks, uh, because uh you know there there were opportunities to uh to do some some post processing

and uh lots of uh you know audio and video things that are uh that are relevant to uh to posting something on a on a platform like YouTube um rather than just a live stream.

Um uh so as an organizer, some of that gets dragged out over a longer period of time because it's not just, hey, everybody show up here for uh you know two days, seven days, whatever it is, uh and uh right, all of that energy is like really packed into a smaller time frame.

Um but at the same time, uh I, you know, online only events uh are uh really a joy to be a part of too.

Um and and they let me meet people that I would have never met before because we're just not in that same kind of like conference circuit.

I I have a bunch of conferences that I'm used to attending, um, right.

And uh some of the the online ones mean um, you know, I I still try to block out my calendar for those days, right?

Because it's uh hard to attend a conference and uh and be doing something else at the same time, um, right?

If if you've got stuff going on at home or uh or if it's like I'm gonna watch talks during my lunch break, uh whatever that may be.

Uh so I I still try to block out uh those times, but uh it means I'm not worried about uh the additional travel time and the travel cost, and uh, you know, it's not cheap to stay in a city that you don't live in for uh upwards of a week, right?

So um I think both have really important places.

Um uh and and and we need both both styles of events, and some events uh will be uh, you know, will offer both things, and and some are online only and some are in-person only, and there are there are valid reasons for all of those things.

Um there are also uh you know, PyCon US uh does videos and tries to turn them around quite quickly.

Uh, but there are conferences that don't have videos, and uh I've heard from speakers that that is maybe a a less intimidating format in which to give your first conference talk, right?

Yeah, it's it's it's really about um you know what fits your community's needs at that time, right?

Sure.

So I definitely see both sides of that.

I did want to ask, I know we're I guess we're at 40 or so minutes, um, advice for conference goers.

So you're both not just veterans of attending, but organizing.

You must have tips for people who this is their first conference, or maybe people who have attended conferences but are new to PyCon US.

You'll be walking a lot.

I guarantee it.

You don't think you will, but you will, trust me on this one.

Um, it's gonna save you so much, especially since you'll be going back and forth um in the expo hall for if you're just staying for the talks, three days.

If you're staying for more, three plus days.

And there's a lot of travel because there's a lot of rooms and a lot to get to and a lot of things to see.

That's my big one.

And then also uh this is not a super this is sorry, this is a super casual conference.

Uh don't worry too much about bringing your best business suit.

Um if you are the most comfortable in the business suit, we're you're more than welcome to wear it.

But this is pretty much a t-shirt hoodies type conference, a pair of jeans.

So um don't feel like you need to dress up.

Um unless you're going to the job fair, then I then yes, try try to dress up a little bit for the job fair.

And also

Just put a

Yeah.

Just like just looks like slightly, slightly um, you know, prof a little pro more professional than use, but uh, but I don't think I don't think the recruiters will really false you too much if you show up in a hoodie.

So that's a sort of the election bars.

Um it's

So um, you know, it it's uh the the job fair and the uh uh and and the poster sessions uh are are awesome events.

Um uh but try not to do too much right throughout the throughout the conference because it's easy to uh easy to overdo it, especially if it's your first event.

It's a marathon.

That is absolutely correct.

The talks are recorded, so if you're like, oh my goodness, I have to watch this or this is never coming back, don't worry, don't don't worry.

All all the main talks are being recorded.

You can you're more than welcome to take a breather, go outside, breathe some fresh air, take a walk, sit quietly.

It's uh it is very it can be very overwhelming if you're not used to a lot of people.

It is um a lot of new people, super friendly people.

So always and don't forget to always take a few minutes to drink some water because staying hydrated is very important.

Um in the we do have nice snack times in the expo hall, so please take full advantage of the fact that you should eat regularly.

Don't forget to eat, don't forget to drink some water.

These places are quite big, so bring a sweater, bring something to keep yourself warm.

They do get a little chilly, especially when the room is supposed to fit 3,000 people.

The ceilings are quite high, so you will get a blast, nice blast of cold air every once in a while.

I basically didn't leave the hotel the whole time.

Everyone's like, Oh, you're in San Diego, what'd you do?

I was like, I went to talks, and I like I didn't leave the hotel.

And then, but sort of realized, oh, we should have done something more.

And we saw or I saw online that uh E Durbin on the infrastructure team had rented a bike and done bike rides every morning.

Uh, you know, he's um they're a big biker, so that's a good idea.

So got a connection, and then the next year and the year after, Carlton and I would go for bike rides, and then it grew to a couple other people, you know, early in the morning.

So at least we did something.

We were like, okay, we saw the ocean, you know.

It wasn't just from from the plane.

So I've got I've gotten better at taking those breaks, whereas the first couple times I felt like I had to sit through every talk, and then, you know, it's an it's an overload of things, and it's fine to go, yeah, go sit somewhere and read a book for an hour if you need to.

You'll find you actually meet people that way, right?

Because you'll go tuck into a corner and you're like, oh, there's there's Carlton.

Uh, and I think I got like two-thirds of the way through the first day day before I could really not keep my focus any further.

Um, and so I I I try to pace those things uh and and and still right, I attend as many talks as I I can comfortably.

Uh it's a lot harder to attend a talk if you're if you're on the organizing side, but when I'm at an attendee, um uh, you know, I I I try to seek out a uh uh you know as as many as as are reasonable for me, but everybody's gonna be a little different.

And so um, you know, I I applaud those folks who who can really like keep uh keep up with every talk throughout the conference.

Um that's a lot.

Um, but uh you know, for sure there's uh tons of tons of stuff on the stage to uh to to go and check out.

And uh PyCon has several tracks going at once, and so um uh you know you you you should rarely be bored at a PyCon US.

And the point of having 85,000 is that you can never do them all, right?

You could so there's no point trying to stress and be a completionist about it.

You just have to do the one you're doing nice and you know, and focused on that.

And it's the same with talks at PyCon.

You can't see them all, mainly because several are happening simultaneously.

So, you know, no matter how busy you are, you're not gonna see them all.

So chill out, enjoy the one you're at, take a break, catch up later.

You know, there's plenty of time for watching the video you miss later.

Um so you uh I if I've you know if Will's going at giving the talk, I'm obviously gonna go and you know sit in the front row and throw tomatoes, that sort of thing.

Um but then you know, if there's a technical talk I'm particularly interested, I might go to that.

Or if there's a talk that's on a topic that's slightly, you know, left field, that's not you know, that it's not right into my core things I already know about, I'll I'll go to that or quite often because it it's an opportunity to grow a little bit.

It's an opportunity to see something a little bit different.

And you know, whilst you can catch the video, it is nice to catch the talk live.

And I sometimes feel that that that marginal difference, you get more on the talk that you're less comfortable with.

It's you sort of out of your comfort zone, you grow your comfort zone a little bit.

So I'll I'll go for that.

What about you, Will?

I'm it probably won't surprise people.

I've always been a first row person in school, in conferences.

I'm unashamed of it, and I will be there.

So I go sit front and center, give support.

I usually, if it's you know, if it's if it's Carlton or someone that will break a tie, if it's a 50-50, I'll usually go for something that, yeah, left of field, something maybe that I isn't an area I know so well, or or flip side, if there's like a deep technical talk, uh I'd love to be there in person because the the back and forth, the questions are really good.

But usually it's what it's it's the unexpected ones, to be honest, that I most enjoy.

Uh but I've also learned I don't have to go to every talk.

So my first Django Con, I went to every, you know, every single talk.

I took notes because I didn't know about the YouTube videos, you know, and then the next year I was like, okay, I'm gonna do a bike ride in the morning, and I went to almost every talk, but there were times when I went, there was a pool there, which I didn't even go to the first year.

There's a pool in the middle of like outside hotel.

And so I went to the pool, and then sure enough, like several like well-known Django people were there, and then we have a conversation, and that's still part of the conference experience.

So I think to your point, John, like learning how to like dial it down a little bit and and pace myself.

Um, you know, usually I'll go out the first night or two, and then somewhere in the middle, if it's like a four or five-day conference, I really enjoy just not seeing anyone.

Um, of course, I usually split a room with Carlton, so I can't avoid him, but aside from that, he doesn't count.

And he says that a self-care sprint is the sprint that makes all the other sprints possible.

And I just love that.

So hopefully after the conference, there's some breathing time for maybe the the two

of you.

Uh I I took a page out of easebook and actually am driving with my bicycle down so that way I can get in my morning ride as well, and uh and just kind of ease into in, you know, the nice warm-up to the rest of the day.

Um the conference center is actually quite lovely.

It's near kind of like a nice path where you can do a bunch of bike rides um and also walks along waters.

I mean if you didn't know this, you will now.

Pittsburgh has a lot of bridges, so you can walk across the bridge if you like in the morning and then come back and start your day at the conference center.

And it's actually a very nice ease into the day.

Um and again, just had to plug the fact that like there's gonna be days where you're just like, I'm I need to get away.

That's okay.

There's lots of lovely things you can do in Pittsburgh.

There's uh the the Heinz Museum is actually pretty much next door to the conference center.

And there's also the Andy Warhawk museum, that's but a bit of a walk, not too far of a walk.

Um, and for those of you who love National League, Major League Baseball, like myself, uh, you can probably catch a game or two, hopefully a game, during the time that you're in Pittsburgh, which is what I'll be doing.

I hear I hear rumors there'll be a dollar dog.

Dollar dog night.

So I'll be eating a lot of dollar dogs.

I hadn't thought of that.

So I've learned that they don't after the game starts, they they can't really sell tickets for much.

So sometimes I can just bop down and I'll throw in a dad moment.

My 12-year-old daughter is part of a group singing the national anthem on April 7th against the Blue Jays, Tirana Blue Jays.

Actually, if you watch the game, yeah, I'll I'll take a picture.

There's gonna be 40 or so kids, but the redhead one's mine.

So what else?

What else, John?

Is there other things we sh we should have asked you?

Uh what did we not cover?

Uh I think we covered a lot.

Um uh there's, you know, I'm I'm sure that we didn't list out every single thing that happens at PyCon US, uh, because there's a lot.

Um and and so uh, you know, I want to make sure, and I'm sure I'll still miss some here, uh, but I'm gonna try.

Uh, we also have uh right the expo hall is a great, great place uh to spend some time, meet some of the sponsors who are uh supporting the community and and helping make these kinds of events possible.

Um uh there are some uh you know not not just uh uh not just sponsors uh as well, there are there are additional booths uh who are staffed by uh there's a program called Startup Row.

Uh so if you're looking to see, you know, hey, what's what are some really interesting up-and-coming startups that are using Python um for their new businesses, uh go visit all of those folks.

I I had the the opportunity to be um uh part of one of those booths one year, which is um uh a lot of fun.

It's an interesting experience.

Well, if you've never done it before, uh uh you know, I got pretty good at at uh saying the same like 30 to 60 second pitch uh uh over the course of that weekend.

So it's you know, it's a data science demo, there's a web demo.

I have to do the web demo.

Uh, but I'm sure the first like half of the day, it'll be a little bit of like, oh, what are people gonna ask?

And then it'll be kind of going into um, you know, not RAM memory, but long-term memory with some of the things.

But really, it's about meeting people, right?

So it's I imagine for you at the startup, right?

If people come and say, what is a startup or you know, ask you questions, you can answer them, but it's more fun when they're like, How are you doing, John?

Or like, you know, like the personal stuff, right?

That's that's a little harder to replicate outside of a conference.

It's also um, you know, uh I think at at any of these booths, um you're gonna get an opportunity to ask a question you're not gonna uh see like on the homepage of that company's website, right?

Like, oh, what does your company do?

Um, like I can answer that pretty quickly by going to the URL.

Uh, how do you use Python?

Right.

Um, right.

Uh are you doing a bunch of machine learning work?

Is it uh is it that you are building tools for Python developers, right?

Those those are all um kind of questions that you're gonna get more than a tagline answer to, maybe.

Um yeah.

Uh but uh there are um I'm trying I'm trying not to leave off things that happen in the expo hall.

There's community booths.

Um uh so

Is something happening around that?

I'll I'm there.

I'm stuck.

I'm I'm at the booth, so come, you know, come rescue me.

ter year.

Um, you know, Expo Hall is a good good place to hang out and meet some of those folks who who are gonna uh you know gonna be part of those traditions, right?

And uh a lot of my my best friends uh are are people who I've met at conferences over the years.

Uh and and right.

That's sort of a pro tip.

Like as soon as you find one, then you kind of, you know, like like that, yeah.

So there's the Pac-Man seating at PyCons and Django Cons.

You always leave a chair open.

It seems to be that way with groups too.

Like, so I've noticed the first Django Con, like I didn't know anyone.

So I found some people to do meals with, but it was more like, you know, I was at the buffets, and then over the years it becomes more and more and more.

And um, and then sometimes you have the opposite problem where you have to sort of say, no, I want to keep this to 10 people.

You know, that's that's uh we've had that at we've had that at DjangoCon's Carlton, right?

All right.

We will get this episode out.

So there's as of now, two months until the conference.

I think we'll release it, they'll be seven weeks.

So yeah.

It's big, it's not that scary.

You'll find your tribe.

But uh yeah, find f please find find us.

Love to say hi, love to meet everyone who's coming to PyCon US.

Any questions, if you need to know where the washrooms are, hit me up.

Happy, half, happy to point you in any direction you need to go.

Uh there's a ton of other Python conferences and meetups that happen all around, all around the world.

Uh, you know, find find your local one um and and go and you know meet meet your communities there as well.

Because uh, you know, uh PyCon US was was not my first conference, right?

It was a conference I uh I attended after going to a couple of other uh Python conferences.

And so uh there's uh and and now I you know make it a point to I try and seek out conferences I haven't been to.

Um uh you know, again, travel's sometimes hard, but um definitely uh the Python community uh I has uh Python communities uh are are are large spaces and uh there's there's probably something happening uh you know in your area uh and and if there's not there's a good opportunity there.

Like this it it it is the routine.

I'll see you in person in in two months.

Yeah, thank

you for this.

I mean, for Python people to come, you know, hang out with lowly Django people, it's it's definitely an honor.

So well, we will have links to everything in the show notes.

We're at DjangoChat.com, and we'll see everyone next time.

Bye bye.

Bye bye.

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