Transcript: Conferences

I'm Carlton Gibson.

Hi.

Hello, Will.

I'm excited today.

I think we're going to be talking about conferences, right?

I think both of them.

And yeah, there's a lot to say about conferences and attending them, watching the videos online.

And so we're going to get into all that today.

Maybe do you want to start off?

So Django, right?

There's a couple main Django conferences.

There's DjangoCon Europe.

DjangoCon US, I guess they could just call that DjangoCon.

And then we have DjangoCon Europe.

And then there's next year there's going to be a DjangoCon Africa, which um hopefully have an episode about that with some interviews I did at Django Con Europe in a few weeks when I get around to editing those.

And then the I think that's all the DjangoCon.

And there's like um smaller Django.

Oh no, there's

But is

I thought they've always tagged them together.

Anyway, yeah, that's details.

The point is that around the world in all these glamorous locations, there are these great conferences you can go to.

Um PyCon in the US being the largest one, but PyCon Australia, there's um we'll do in the show notes, pyCon.org, you can see conferences, regular meetups, literally every major city in the world.

So there's a lot of things happening out there.

So let's talk about so let's talk about what it's like to attend DjangoCon Europe.

So you were just there, you were giving the keynote.

So this is the the big, you know, what is I'll you can talk maybe about being the Django fellow and giving a keynote, and I I can talk about uh I attended my first Django Con last fall sort of as a regular attendee, and we can compare and contrast those experiences.

I've been in the Django world for ever and ever, but it was only 2017 that I attended my first um Django event um Django event, DjangoCon Europe in Florence, and I was just absolutely blown away.

You know, this whole talk about I came for the language, I stayed for the community, I had no idea.

And I went to DjangoCon and I was like, wow, this is what I've been missing, this is super.

Um, and you know, what I always say about Django, it's got a community unlike others in tech, and it really is, it's it's inclusive and caring and just wonderful.

And so 2018 I went to Heidelberg and I gave my first conference talk there.

Uh, and then I gave another little talk in DjangoCon US last year in San Diego, and then I I I was, you know, I submitted for the um DjangoCon Europe this year, which was in Copenhagen, and they asked me to do the keynote, and I was oh one of the keynotes, and I was like, wow, fantastic, super honored, just amazingly honored to do that.

So I gave the first talk, which was um nerve-wracking, given that on the morning I got up and I ended up going to the wrong location.

I looked on the I looked on the website of my mobile phone and I I just typed in the first address I saw.

I copied and pasted the first address I saw, and it was the venue for the sprints.

So I'm like, you know, just arriving on time and there's nobody there.

It's like a desert.

So instead of being at the conference drinking too much coffee, getting overly worked up at the venue, I was busy getting a sweat on running down to the to the um the venue.

But I made it in time and it all went okay.

And in terms of so you don't have to attend in person to get a lot out of these conferences.

I mean, I watch a ton of these videos, these are some of the best intermediate advanced level, some beginner um tutorials out there on everything Django.

They're unbelievable resource.

And if just going by the number of views on YouTube, they're usually on YouTube, but they're criminally underused.

I mean, it's only like a couple hundred or thousand for even the best talks.

Um, so we'll we'll link to those.

But um so so what is it like?

So what's the experience like?

You mentioned sprints.

I mean, so when I went to DjangoCon, I didn't know what to expect, and it turns out there's usually there's tutorials for like a day or two, which are paid things you can often um attend.

So like half-day workshops, there's two to three days of talks, and then a lot of times there's another two or so days of sprints where people are working on Django itself, right?

Is DjangoCon Europe that same structure?

Because that's DjangoCon US.

Like you can go a day early.

So um, I think on the Tuesday before um DjangoCon Europe, there's a Django Girls Workshop.

I don't know if there were workshops before, but also during the main so Jing DjangoCon Europe is a is a single track conference, which is lovely because you're all in the same room, you all go to the same talks.

I really like it.

So if you're not in the talk, you're out um busy talking.

But yeah, they they have these same um uh they have workshops and then the sprints afterwards.

The sprints, I always thought the sprints were for experts getting on with super expert hard thing, but it turns out that they're equally for people coming along and contributing to Django for the very first time.

And so that's you know, super if you want to get involved in Django, come to the sprints.

There'll be people to help you, help you find a ticket, help you work on a problem.

You can join in with somebody else's project, you can learn how contributing to open source works.

So the sprints are phenomenal.

I did I didn't do that last year, and I think I felt as you did that, you know, who am I to contribute to Django?

Which we've done our uh episodes on this, but I I believe they they organize the team, so it's it's designed to have a mix of you know someone who is quite experienced in the middle and beginners, and you know, there's thousands and thousands of tickets, so there's something for everyone.

So that's um I hope to do that, and that's a it's good to encourage people, no matter your ability, to get involved and contribute back that way.

Oh, that would be a great idea.

And as I say, I don't know if that's done and dusted yet, but that's what I'm really hoping.

Um because at the sprints at DjangoCon Europe, I was helping lots of people, but I was doing it one-on-one, and that doesn't scale, and I was, you know, I was absolutely exhausted and not getting around all the people that needed help.

So if we can do it in a group environment more, that would be amazing, and then hopefully we can learn for that in future conferences.

I mean, so in terms of size, so I mentioned PyCon is thousands of people.

I think DjangoCon US was four or five hundred, maybe six hundred.

Is DjangoCon Europe similar mid hundreds?

I think they, you know, it's possible to make it bigger, but um DjangoCon Europe's got this single track thing and it's not it's really intimate, you know.

It's I mean, it's really every almost everyone in the Django community who I had heard about or read or seen work was was there and just available, you know, either giving a talk or in the hallway and at meals.

Uh I found yeah, the the unstructured time was some of the best um best time because you just have sit down and have a coffee with someone who are you.

Oh, I'm you know doing something really interesting with Django or I'm new to Django or uh and and DjangoCon US people are from all over the world.

Uh I'd say it it seemed to at least half the people were not from the United States, which was fantastic.

So, you know, you're never going to be threatened in a way that you might be at other tech events.

And there's a there's a expectation to be open and welcoming and to meet more people, and you know, so you can go up to anybody and you can say hello, and that's expected, and people will come up to you and say hello.

Whereas other tech environments I've been in, it's it's like, oh I can't go and talk to anybody.

And and so for that it's becomes really friendly.

And then you go to your second one, it's like, oh wow, I haven't seen you since last time.

And you know, it's

I and I second that.

I've I've been to a few tech events, and I think Django Con was the most friendly, the most welcoming, the most open, the most committed, as you said, to a code of conduct and trying to, you know, people very adamant about if there's someone doing something they shouldn't to to stop that.

So uh it's yeah, it's a wonderful environment.

I mean, so I went so last year I gave I gave I submitted to do a talk um because I'd never done a been to a Django Con.

And um it is there is some expense involved.

I should we should mention there's um financial assistance they can offer if you're you know, depending on your situation.

So don't be put off by the fact that it's a couple hundred dollars um to attend.

Um but for in my case, I I submitted a talk, I was fortunate enough to be accepted.

It's pretty competitive for talks, but they want a wide spectrum.

It's not just advanced people and advanced things.

I mean, I really appreciated that there was beginner stuff, intermediate, you know, the full scope.

So if it's your first time submitting a talk, you can say that in your application, and then there's a there's a kind of allocation for that, and they're looking for community talks, which are non-technical, and then technical talks targeting each level, beginn them, intermediate, advanced, as you said.

So for me, it's a little bit harder for me to give a beginner intermediate level talk because I've kind of internalized a lot of the things.

So it's it takes a little more work to understand, oh, these are the points that are confusing for people.

But if you've just I mean people will give talks, for example, if they want to learn something and they don't know it, they'll say, Oh, I'll submit a talk on this, and then I'll be forced to you know become an expert in it.

And going through that process, they'll be able to see all the gotchas that a beginner would go through.

And I find those are the best talks when someone guides your hand and says, You know, look, here's you know, here's this tricky thing here, and here's how you get there.

Um so in no way should people think you have to be an expert to give a talk.

If anything, I think it's almost harder maybe to give a talk as an expert because it's easier to assume people are on your level when they're they're not necessarily with knowledge.

So the expert is always not always, but the the trap, the danger is that you're talking to the other experts, and then your talk becomes more kind of uninteresting because it's too hard.

And it's much better to give a talk that's targeting the beginner, the advanced beginner, the intermediate.

Yeah.

I mean, I remember so my talk was on um authentication of Django Rest framework, and I remember uh being touched that you were in the audience, you came up and said hello before.

Um, you know, that's a perfect example, right?

I mean, who am I?

I barely know Django Rest framework and the you know co-main maintainer and you know this big poo boss there in the audience.

And um, you know, but there's still things people got out of that talk at an expert level, and and then a lot of um beginner intermediates, I think just having someone go over the scope of whatever topic it is is interesting.

And I remember a lot of people came up to me after the talk asking really great questions, and you know, if I could answer them, I I I would.

And if I couldn't, um, because I had so many people asking me questions, I could connect them with other people.

And that experience actually really brought about the idea of there should be a podcast on Django because just my experience at DjangoCon itself was so illuminating and it was so interesting, and you know, wanted to highlight chats about Django, you know, regardless of level of of people.

I think that's and people are people aren't putting on airs either.

I mean, if people know something, they'll say it, and if they don't, you know, they'll say it too.

So oh,

And I I think the environment too is um, you know, there are there's uh cocktail receptions and stuff, but a f a large number of people don't drink.

There's no pressure around that, which when I was in Silicon Valley, there certainly was pressure to to drink at tech events.

So there's a really nice mix of if you want to have some drinks, you can, but plenty of people don't, and everyone's just really, really nice.

Um, and so you know, I came away from that experience really energized about Django, about the work that I was doing.

People had read my book and told me about it, which was um means a lot more than just seeing numbers on a screen.

And so I heartily recommend going.

It is an investment of time, there is a little bit of money, but it's um a huge benefit, and you meet so many people, and those relationships continue on um well after the conference.

So you know you're you're constantly go um trying to learn and trying to develop and trying to build your skill base, and there's only so much reading of books you can do and whatnot.

Those videos are super, and there'll be like half an hour long talk on um I don't know.

So there's one on um the security headers that you can set that all that Django will set for you, which make your website more secure.

Well, Adam Johnson, who's one of the core contributors, gave a a short talk at DjangoCon Europe in Copenhagen on the security headers.

So, you know, you can watch that talk and all of a sudden you know what settings to set on Django and what they do and how they make your project more secure.

And that was something you could do on the train or on the, you know, you could cue that up to watch it whenever.

I wasn't gonna say but yeah, but but again, the numbers of if you look at the numbers of people viewing it, it is insanely low.

It is so low, it is crazy.

Um I I mean, for example, I just found out that the talk I gave last year was one of the more popular talks at the conference, which is great to hear, but it only has two, three thousand views online, which to me, you know, I mean, that's what we're getting like a week with this podcast.

People are not looking at these videos, they're fantastic videos.

You should go check them out.

And often the slides are attached as well.

And I mean, so this most recent DjangoCon Europe, Tom Christie, um creator of Django Rest Framework, had a really in-depth talk about sketching out uh Django redesign as the title, talking about async and the work he and others are doing to bring async to um to Django, to APIs, and it's but very educational, really walks you through like what you know, why does this matter?

What are the challenges?

I mean, just a fantastically comprehensive talk.

Um, because you know, that's an area for me that I'm not that knowledgeable about, but we're all gonna need to be in.

And he really went through the full scope.

And like, so you know, I had conversations at the um conference about async and uh around uh around Tom's talk.

And the question, well, why do we need this?

Well, the first thing is there are some services which need the high throughput of an async service, and Python needs to have a solution there.

So you can't, you know, we shouldn't have to change language because we need an async solution, whether we need these high throughput.

Well, Django should have it at a basic level because it's the batteries-included web framework, right?

You shouldn't have to change web framework just to get at the basic async endpoint.

Now, you know, maybe Django won't have all the async features uh in the world, and maybe there's a reason to step to a different async framework for that.

But Django has to have a big a basic solution there because it's the batteries included Python web framework.

Yeah.

And that's why, you know, so it's a kind of interesting development.

And all of that came out of Tom's talk, and you know,

So it's not it's really not the case of you know people picking their friends for these talks.

It's the proposals are anonymously reviewed.

So just because you're some big name doesn't necessarily mean your talk will be accepted, and they intentionally want a wide variety of people.

Um so that's meant to be an encouraging statement.

I mean, I remember when I submitted my talk, I was, yeah, again, like, who am I?

But they they they want first timers, they want regular contributors to Django, not just the same um people at every conference.

It's a good it's a great, you know, it's not gonna make you it's a great way of boosting your profile, it's a great um opportunity to do something, it's a great, you know, learning opportunity, it's it's just super.

But I mean it's not gonna give you anything in a way, you know, you're not gonna become famous or anything like that, because it's jangle.

I mean, at least DjangoCon US is um you know it's a title, it's a short description, then a slightly longer description, yeah.

And and then you know, a quick who who are you?

It doesn't it doesn't take that long to do.

No, but it's a really May 20th.

Yeah, so May 20th.

May 20th this

I mean So you do need to get in by that done.

That's cheeky.

So I so when you when you submit, they use a service called paper call, and there's an option to make your submission public, I guess so you can share with family and friends or whatever.

And so I uh I did do a tweet saying, hey, I've just submitted, here's the title of my talk, which actually so it's fine to say you submitted a talk, but putting the title in there um abuses that anonymous process.

So I I took that tweet down.

So that was a good lesson learned, you know.

Because I I don't it shouldn't matter who I am for the for the talk.

So submit the talk, you know, do a tweet saying I submitted a talk and everyone else should, but you know, it's not a popularity contest.

Um so don't, you know, I guess don't put the name of your talk in a tweet or a blog post.

Yeah, okay, because that undermines

I talked about the I we sort of mentioned it, but the the important thing at the conferences is the hallway track as well.

So, you know, what's the fate you're out there, you oh what was your favorite talk?

Oh, it was this one, and you build up and

They never seem to be in a talk, they were just in the hallway the whole time.

So there is I think that is like the after a couple you re you know you realize the hallway track is the because all the talks are online.

So yeah, it's a mix for for everyone.

I mean I sat in all the talks because that's that's how I am, but plenty of people say, oh well, I'll go to a couple talks and I'll I'll see the rest online and you know, just have the chance to have one-on-ones or um go get a meal with with someone is really what's what it's about.

So any other what else should we say?

I mean, you should go to conferences, you should watch the talks, you should submit.

They're not scary, it's incredibly friendly.

People don't use these enough.

The DjangoCon Europe talks are all out now on YouTube.

Um there was I guess there's there was one more we talked about beforehand.

Uh Docs Art didn't happen.

Did you want to highlight that one?

It was another um one of the days' key keynotes.

It was just super.

It's like, you know, about documentation and how you make your documentation stronger.

And for me, it's one of the big things because Django's open tickets, the number three category is documentation tickets.

And you know, Django's docs are just super, but if we could somehow focus on those and get that that number down, that would be a massive chunk of tickets, which aren't necessarily technically difficult in themselves, but they need again love and time and effort.

Um and you know, so her talk I I really liked.

Um it's called Docs, or it didn't happen.

Again, that's available on YouTube now.

Go to the conferences, they're great.

Yay!

But they are.

All right.

Well, everyone, thanks for listening this week.

We'll be back with future episodes on Django, and you can always go to DjangoChat.com or to Chat Django on Twitter.

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